Showing posts with label Jon Vaughters. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Jon Vaughters. Show all posts

Tuesday, November 5, 2013

PUSHING WATER UPHILL ? SSDD for UCI controlled Cycling ?

Cookson , new President of UCI , will be wondering how to deal with the latest Cycling News Stories ?

With reports in " L'Equipe " that Bjarne Riis is selling out of Pro World Team " SAXO " , there is speculation as to who will be the New Owners .

Then there is the new book from the 2007 Le Tour Racer , Rasmussen , who was sent home by his Team whilst wearing the " Maillot Jeune ". Ras was revealed at that time , to have advised erroneous information as to his " Whereabouts "! According to info supplied at the time , he was to be in Mexico , with family . During the Le Tour , Davide Cassani , journo & presenter with RAI TV , revealed that he had seen him in the Dolomites , wonder why he kept that to himself for so long ?

In addition to these items there is the relevations of Ryder Haesdahl , last week , HE DOPED ! He decided to stop before the 2004 season , so thats alright then ! Having been on the CLEAN Cycling career path since then , he has escaped Anti Doping Sanctions because of " SOL ( statues of limitations ) "
! Seems that RH had a chat with USADA in 2012, about the same time that others were dishing the dirt in regards to Lance Armstrong. , you know , that guy that was reported to have won " Le Tour " ,  7  times . Wonder what he has to say about this matter ?

Seems that he has a few things to say , as i just discovered in the few hours since posting this item :

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/lance-armstrong-exclusive-interview-part-1

This is the area of the article  , i thought relevant , to this blog post :

DB: When did you realise that the UCI didn’t give a fuck?
LA: I don’t know if they didn’t give a fuck or if they just couldn’t,
DB: But do you not think they didn’t have even the will?
LA: If they had the scientific data to protect them legally, then yeah, but again I don’t know. Ultimately we end up where we are today where we have a test that works for one compound [EPO] and guys have to decide if they want to dance around that. I’d like to think that there’s a lot less risk taking. But at the time they could only test for what they had a test for. I don’t think it’s right or responsible, and again I’m not defending them because I don’t really care for them, but cycling tried with some pressure to implement things that were just band-aids over the course of time. Whether it was just the 50 per cent rule, which was what it was – it wasn’t perfect but it was a step. But the sport got no credit for it. That led to more things like the off-score, which led to the biological passport and all the while, no credit. And every other sport that has the doping problem is sitting back and laughing, laughing their asses off, getting no attention, no criticism, no exposure and not doing a fucking thing.
honestly, and I don’t think highly of Pat [McQuaid] or Hein [Verbruggen] today, but what were they going to do? Imagine you’re Hein, and again I’m not defending him, but take yourself to '94 or maybe even '93 or before. He should have known before because high-octane existed in the late '80s and not just in cycling, in other endurance sports. You’re there, you’re the head of the governing body, you’ve got no test, no test at all – what are you going to do? And again, I know those guys are easy to pick on, but it’s 1995 for example, you’re Hein Verbruggen. What the fuck are you going to do? Hope someone gets caught at a border? There’s nothing you can do. Maybe they didn’t give a fuck, I didn’t ask them, but I do know that they could not do a thing. Just like the head of the IAAF couldn’t do a thing, just like the head of FINA couldn’t do a thing. They just did not have the tools to do anything until maybe 10 years later.


" Razzie " seems to have upset a few Pro World Racers , with his " Relevations "?
Seems that he claims that 100% of the " 2007 TDF Rabobank were " Doping "?  Would appear that he had made the same claim to the Dutch Authorities , earlier this year , when there was an investigation of the Rabobank Team ? Would appear that there were " Truth and Reconciliation Conditions " applied to all those Team Members that came forward and made a " Clean Breast of their Transgressions " during the " Amnesty Period "?

Rumbling along in the background is the Cycling News Forum , where ALL and Sundry , disguised by their Psydonyms and fictious IP Addresses , have added fuel to the bonfire :

The Revenge of Rasmussen         http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=1875&page=35

Some interesting comments :

  "  a very useful information as it shows some differences in the blood doping protocols publicly revealed ! it also shows a degree of sophistication and preparedness for blood profiling (as the passport was not formally/officially introduced till 2008 but was indded used for targeting way before 2008).

in the article linked by neinei above, ras, if i understood it right, was saying they drew about 220-230 ml into one bag. this is the infamous 'half-unit' that rendered the blood passport useless and that allegedly was used by bert before he got caught with clen..."

  "  So, Freire and Flecha. While it's possible that the original "100% doped" was an offhand comment which wasn't meant to be taken literally, it's very unlikely that they were clean. Rasmussen has only said he didn't see them dope, which is very different from saying he hadn't heard anything about their doping. What's puzzling is that he'd be afraid of a lawsuit at this point and only in regards to Freire.



  "  As recently as last December, Nys said he knew Leinders as 'an honest man'. He used to be Nys' trainer, not only his doctor.

I'm not accusing Nys of anything, mind you. Here in the Clinic everything's mostly black-or-white, but Leinders appears to be an interesting character who only provided doping to the happy few."

  "  He's mentioned. Lienders had to flush his bag (was planned to be used prior to the Vosges) in 2005, as his HCT would've gone beyond 50 with it. There are some more stories involving Menchov."



JV talks , sort of                          http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=18079&page=189

  "  So you're saying it's not possible that he could have deceived Vaughters? That Hesjedal has either not doped, or is on a team program driven from the top?"

  "  1) I doubt JV runs a doping program

2) That is not to say riders on his team definitely aren't doping

3) That JV hopes his riders are clean =/= them actually being clean. "



  "  in JV's defense, is there anyone besides Bassons he could hire that is not tarred?

maybe he could turn a professor at his business school into a mean DS."
  "  Yes, if he was found to be doping at Slipstream it would be a massive hit to the team given that it has been their basis of existence, that no one ever has and ever will dope whilst riding at the team. Additionally that was in response to you claiming that there would have been people who he could expose in order to get a six month suspension, presumably that could involve people who have worked at the team (e.g. Vande Velde, White, Lim, Weltz)."


RIIS bails out ?                            http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?p=1364640#post1364640

  "   the Inner Ring ‏@inrng 1m
Gazzetta headline asks "What will Contador do?" but there's a contract in place so they'll have to get along or things get expensive
Reply Retweet Favorite More Expand
the Inner Ring ‏@inrng 8m
La Gazzetta Dello Sport says Riis sells his Saxo team to Oleg Tinkov, cites Danish anti-doping investigation as a catalyst to speed up sale "

  "  Tinkov can become the modern day JV. A safe haven for dopers from the "clean" generation."

  "  Perhaps former dopers should not be allowed to run a cycling team, whether Ras, Riis, JV, Vino or any other, the problem is though it wont stop non sanctioned or confessed ones like Eki"

  "  I would hate to see Riis get out of the sport with a big pay packet!

Want to see him out of the sport but after being punished for enabling doping on his teams."




As a side issue Brian Cookson , new President of UCI , since September 2013 , has shown commendable "Transparency " in his time in office by revealing the Topics on the agenda at the 29th October Extraordinary Management Meeting . At that meeting , many of the Most Pressing Problems created by his Predessor , were addressed and progress in many of them were reported . A week later though , it remains to be disclosed , WHAT was done in respect of the Womens Cycling Agenda , that was " to be revealed later in the week "! Found in the media , is a letter reported to be from Hein Verbruggen , president of UCI , until 2005 , when he selected his successor and caused the likes of Silvia Schenk , to jump ship , before she was sucked down by the " Reported Corruption " of the ensuing years .

VERBRUGGEN LETTER ! (translated from Dutch ? )

  "  Dear President,

I am writing to report the truth about various aspects of my term as President of the UCI and to respond to a harsh media campaign against me.

I wrote to our President Pat McQuaid on June 1 last year to inform him of my decision to distance themselves from the world of sports, including cycling. After 38 years of dedication to the sport, now I want to enjoy retirement. The President took note and decided to respect my decision.

Firstly, I want to make it clear that I have never acted inappropriately and that my conscience is absolutely clean. With the benefit of hindsight, however, I admit that I could have done some things differently, but I do not accept that my integrity is in doubt, as has happened in recent months. As you all know, even if there is a President, decisions are made ​​collegially, as much by the Steering Committee by the Congress.

I had the honor of being president of the FICP from '84 to '91 with the following results:
- the introduction of new rules for the professional cycling;
- foundations for a system of social assistance for the professional runners
- strengthening the role of the Commissioners
- the creation of the World Cup and reorganization of the calendar to promote cycling in new countries. During my presidency of the UCI, Instead, we got these results: - unification of the three existing cycling federations: FIAC, FICP and UCI; - settling the finances of the UCI went from a deficit of 1.5 million Swiss francs in 1991 to a surplus of 13 million Swiss francs in 2005 - the creation of a staff UCI which went from 5 people located in three different locations in 1991, 75 in 2005; - Construction of a World Cycling Centre, an extraordinary resource for the globalization of our sport; - establishment of an Ethics Commission; - improvement of the position of cycling in the Olympic Movement.

DOPING.

During this period of intense transformation and development, we have never lost sight of the fight against doping, which is a problem for our sport since the early nineteenth century. If I gave credit for all that has been done during my tenure as President, I would end up ignoring the enormous contribution and all the work done by a large number of people. Among them, of course, the men who helped to pave the way in the fight against doping, ie the members of our Commission, with people like former Vice President Werner Goehner, Professor Manfred Doenicke, Dr. Leon and Dr. Schattenberg Alain Calvez. The fact that journalists and self-proclaimed "social media commentators" attack without understanding the UCI that are attacking the integrity of those who paved the way in the fight against doping and enjoys an impeccable reputation, it is frustrating for me and unacceptable.

I have much to say on the subject, but I prefer to let the facts speak for themselves. Many of the charges leveled against the UCI and against me on this topic have already been answered and I will not go back. In March 2002, Festina affair in the light of the Court of Appeal of Douai, after a thorough investigation and in accordance with the opinion of the public prosecutor, concluded that the UCI has done everything in its power to combat doping account. Evidently, this ruling speaks for itself and for me is more important than the supposed scoop of editors of websites or comments and opinions beds on Twitter and other forums.

WADA has always recognized the UCI work in this field: the Olympic Games in London , the Director General David Howman of Wada has confirmed to me personally that the UCI is one of two International Federations that brought forth more vigorously fight against doping. those who seek a more balanced view of past events suggest you read the book Who still believes in cycling? the Belgian journalist Hans Vandeweghe.

I repeat: I have never acted inappropriately and I have a clear conscience. No facts, no evidence contradict this truth. I refuse to engage in a debate silly and stoop to the level of those who criticize me and believe that I have to prove my innocence: in fact they are the ones who can not prove that I have done something wrong. I'm exasperated and tired of this endless chain of journalists who delight to fuel conspiracy theories, disguising themselves as "investigative journalists" to sell their latest book or inflate their egos or their careers.

FINANCE.

A few words on the finances of the UCI. As I said before, I found the UCI in 1999 with a net debt of about 1.5 million Swiss francs. From the day I took office, I organized a transparent financial and accounting system, I hired accountants and called as an expert J.-P. Strebel to supervise their work. During my presidency, we never received criticism about our finances nor by national associations or by the Congress.

In a recent letter, a national federation asked (someone might think it was a joke ...) additional information on payments received by me . Let me be absolutely clear: I worked nearly full-time for the UCI and I never received a salary or a salary as President. I've been partly offset by the considerable increase in the cost of living that I have argued in relocate to Switzerland . Any analysis of my expense reports reveal that these adjustments were reasonable and modest. I have never accepted or received any commission or other payment related to my role as President.

ARMSTRONG.

Much has been said and written about my "friendship" with Lance Armstrong. And forgive those who think that it has never been photographed with other runners who were not Armstrong. The thousands of photographs that portray me with other athletes seem to be, by strange coincidence, all disappeared.

Allow me once again to be very clear. I've never been a "friend" of Lance Armstrong or other riders or team manager. The only rider who has ever come to my house was Greg Lemond, who with his father came to me for help because his employer is not paying him his salary.

I never said that Lance Armstrong has never doped : I just said, so that everyone could understand, that Armstrong has never tested positive. The fact that it is never tested positive for the UCI nor the French control authorities, nor by the USADA, nor WADA, or with any other organization makes ridiculous accusations of "coverage" that have been leveled against me. UCI has never protected Armstrong.

Any decision on Armstrong and any other racer has been taken in accordance with established facts and scientific means available at that time. UCI The position on the trail of corticosteroids in its champions in the Tour de France 1999, the file relating to its champions of the Tour de Suisse 2001 it was already clarified. I will not waste your time to repeat what has been said over the years.

I recently wrote to Lance Armstrong to express the disgust aroused in me the cynical game he plays, refusing to make a public statement to refute the allegations made ​​by his fellow team, Floyd Landis and Tyler Hamilton, who had said that they had nothing to fear if they were positive results, because he could not ask the UCI to take matters and cover their positivity. From what I understand by reading their testimonies, Armstrong had told them to be positive, even though no evidence of positivity has never been produced. Landis and Hamilton If they are right, I can only assume that the objective of Armstrong was to convince both of them that had tested positive and had managed to remove tests to assure them that he could do it again, even for them.

When these allegations were published for the first time, I wrote an email to Armstrong, I asked him if he had made ​​those statements to his teammates, stressing the seriousness of his words and the damage it would cause to the UCI, my integrity and my reputation and the anti-doping laboratory in Lausanne. Armstrong me immediately replied: "I have never been found positive, so I do not see why I should "invent" stories like this, it would be a really stupid idea. It is 100% false. " The fact that Armstrong has chosen not to respond to my recent letter and not to speak publicly about what he wrote in his e-mail in June 2011, it is really very painful.

I wonder, given the Their testimonies, like his teammates - who have revealed a deep knowledge of anti-doping rules and procedures - it was apparently so naive as to never try to ask him what he meant by "fix" things by anti-doping agencies like WADA USADA, AFLD, etc.. Let us not lose sight, then, the fact that Floyd Landis and Tyler Hamilton, who are now applauded for their courage, have been exposed and sanctioned by the UCI. And without the UCI their deception would never have emerged.

With the benefit of hindsight, and in light of the confession of Armstrong, I admit that it would have been wiser not to accept donations on his part. The UCI has clearly accepted the donation in good faith to finance its fight against doping. There is no relationship between the test and the two donations to the UCI Armstrong: Armstrong has never tested positive, there has never been any positive test to hide.

COMMISSION.

I have tried in this letter, to restore the truth, not having had the opportunity to do so before the Independent Commission that the UCI was forced to stop and that he had a mandate to carry out an investigation into doping in cycling and the UCI management.

I've never been afraid to defend my name and my reputation in court: I have never lost a case. I invite you to seriously question how I could do it, if I had something to hide.

There comes a time when enough is enough. I reached this point. If, after reading this mine, you will continue to doubt my role in UCI, much worse. I will not do anything to make you change your mind. Starting today, these problems do not concern me more and, despite what has happened over the last year, it is with a sense of pride and satisfaction that I look back at everything I've done paying my service to cycling in a voluntary. cherish in their hearts the many personal friendships that I got this sport and I am deeply grateful for the friendship and support I received during the last year.

Sincerely, Hein Verbruggen
http://www.tuttobiciweb.it/index.php...cod=63178&tp=n
__________________



One of my previous Blog posts , was entitled " Comedy Central of Cycling ", seems that we are back into that revolving door , once again ?











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Saturday, March 16, 2013

Jon Vaughters : trying to educate the CLUELESS !

Road Race Cycling is in CRISIS ! Has been for some time now ! In an effort to help the tifosi , understand the    TeamOwner/Manager point of view , a Past Racer , retired from the actual Racing but now running a Team , took time out from his other responsibilities , to give those that hide/ live under the rocks , commonly known as the CyclingNewsForum Clinic , an insight to what a member of Cycling Elite , experiences. Drawing  on his vast experience as a Racer & now Team Manager , he has over the past four days , served up information on his current Thinking and past experiences .

Valuable insights could have been made available to those interested , since the CNF clinic is available to ALL that wish to pose questions . Getting answers depends on the quality and form of the questions posed .I think that a larger group of people view what takes place than offer comment . Some of those that comment though , would be regarded in society with distaste , i could describe them as pyrannas in a feeding frenzy . It reflects badly on the so called " Moderators ", that they allowed some longer term commenters , to overstep the bounds of decency .

As a resource to stay abreast of Cycle racing , Cycling News is close to the best available . Most Racers would be aware of this site , since they find themselves interviewed when they achieve something of note . The Forums are no doubt also visited by the Racers and others working with the Teams . Doubtless those people would also be aware that Jon Vaughters tends to post comments in the " Clinic " occasionally . Any that are following this thread in recent days :

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?p=1170430&posted=1#post1170430

will have now seen that there is absolutely no respect for them , their Teams or Team Owners . One wonders , if the Racers , when requested for future interviews , that they will oblige ? What is the purpose of " Moderators " when something , crawls out from under their rock , using an avator & untracable nickname , pose as " intelligent " , then tip a bucket of sewerage , over someone that enters the thread with " CONFIRMED CREDENTIALS "! That this person has a past that he has PUBLICLY declared and a current situation , which is the envy of many is not an excuse that is acceptable .

The following comment is an example of the crass stupidity displayed by a worm that hides behind a pseudonym :


  " Originally Posted by Benotti69 View Post
JV loves it here 

As for the other team owners. This place is read by all who can and talked about by all the rest of the pro cycling world.

As for 'venom', you tell that to the families of those who died from the peer pressure to dope in order to make it in the pro cycling world.

JV is naive to come on a forum and not expect fans to react with anger, cynicism and sarcasm towards a sport and one of its fromer dopers that has treated the fans with contempt at best, never mind the riders.

He says he wants to address it. Well it needs a revolution of action* to change something so ingrained in the sport that most who enable it think it is integral to the sport.

*Action = people in positions of power being removed from the sport for ever. I am talking UCI, DS, docs etc etc "


Earlier i had called on Jon Vaughters to help encourage more of his fellow Team Owners/Managers to add to the information that could be gleaned from the " Clinic "! My comment follows :

  "  JV gives the clinic an enormous compliment , by visiting , something he is not paid to do , nor gives him a great deal of benefit .

In return , there are those that sit in judgement on his views , others that are outright insulting !

What do you suppose the other team Owner/managers think about sticking a toe in this cesspool ? Doubt ANY Racers feel inclined to do more than read the observations made here , why would they reveal their doubts about their personal difficulties in their career , when those that act like pyrannas , twist any input !

Too late now to encourage OTHER Team Manager/Owners to contribute their POV , since this season is getting busier . Why waste time on a bunch of NO HOPERS , that wish they were relevant to the Sport of Cycling !


JV , that you are taking the time to contribute , is appreciated , i have learnt a great deal more here from your recent 3 days of contribututions , than the time i spent at the tirreno-Adriatico , when i had several chats with this seasons racers .

JV , if you were on the outside of the Teams , what would you do to make the " Clinic " a force to be visited by Team Owners/Managers seeking to improve the SPORT of Cycling ? What could " Clinic Members " do that would make this FORUM a force with views & expectations to be listened to and respected ?

As some are aware , i have been naive in thinking that The Cycling Sport wants rid of the hierachy of the UCI , they do little of consequence to make this a reality . Those on the UCI Management Committee prefer to listen to the holders of the keys to the treasury , than those pontificating about what they are unwilling to do . "

 After posting the above comment , i had thought that some of the " Clinic " would support this initiative? How wrong could i be , the following comments , followed :


Quote:

Originally Posted by skippy 
JV gives the clinic an enormous compliment , by visiting , something he is not paid to do , nor gives him a great deal of benefit .

disagree. being in here helps him tremendously, imo.
he's selling himself as the anti-doping figure in the peloton.
no time to look for links now, but mainstream media love to quote him as the anti-doping flagbearer who even engages with the fans on internet anti-doping forums. in other words, being in here significantly increases his credibility in the eyes of the mainstream sports media. You don't have to be a wizzard to see the advantages, also in terms of sponsorship. It's clever, really.
___________________________________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fearless Greg Lemond 
...And yet Ricco stayed inbetween the believable w/k.
the believable w/k, another one of vaughters' red herrings.

___________________________________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by sniper 
important point. it's not as much about hesjedal as it is about the fallacy of the system, and how vaughters is in the habit of downplaying said fallacy.
basically the data don't suffice to say whether Ryder 2012 was clean or not, yet there comes jonathan assuring us he was clean because the data say so.
JV is, imo, playing with the clinic half the time while using it for his own ends the other half, whether to be one of the 'lads', push his anti doping profile or gets off teasing hardcore fans.

But it is simple( if expensive) if a team wants to prove it is clean. Make the riders live in European mainland for the duration of the season from 2 weeks before their 1st European race to Lombardia and get them independently tested for a bloodpassport to then be published at the end of the year.

Yes this would probably be expensive but it only need to be done to team leaders and super doms. Obviously a team like Sky should do all as we are told they are all super talented but a team like Garmin needs only do a max of 10 riders.

That teams are not intrested in proving they are clean says a lot about the sport. They all think signing up to MPCC means they are clean. Bollixz.

If MPCC was about clean cycling they would be calling for similar and setting it up with wada. Doesn't need UCI and if worked UCI would have to adopt it.

JV calls the current situation a utopia, i think he is blinded by Hesjedal's Giro, which he probably never foresaw for a team like his, but as a fans, the answer to how that was achieved is the same answer levelled at all past Gt winners with few exceptions, till something proves it different. Hesjedal aint no LeMond.

___________________________________________
#3136     
 Originally Posted by horsinabout 
JV talks a lot about his experiences......which is admirable, and telling.

Because he is still involved in high level professional cycling, there is a kind of juxtaposition in what he writes, regarding his experiences from the past and now in the present.

He is clashing here in the forum with idealism from posters and what he really knows is going on in "the real world" of pro racing.
And what does he really know vs what he is saying in here? BTW, how do we know this is really JV?

Anyway, the whole clean schtick and his presence in here has always been an enigma to me. Why does he profess clean cycling, with the implication being the others are dirty? Why would this be good for the sport from a sponsorship side...why would Garmin sponsor a team that will be competing against dopers and thus losing alot, and being associated with a sport so full of dopers that a selling point of certain teams is no PED use? But, they don't lose alot...they even won a GT last year.

To sniper etal, why would JV say anything other than what he is saying about SKY, and either sound like a sore loser or open himself up legally, or be ushered out of the sport pronto? And, how can he defend his clean rider's winning GT's against doped competition if he starts saying everybody else is doping?

What does he gain by posting here, opening himself up to contradictions and criticism? I asked early on in this thread a question, which never got answered until a few pages ago; why ask for so much more testing $ if things are clean? I guess it took him a few months to come up with an answer now....it is to thwart off future improved drug use else this clean time will go away. This is the first I have heard about this. How novel, and not too believable IMO.

I gravitate back and forth on whether this guy is really doing alot to improve the sport or if he is full of ****, ****ing with everybody. That means the forum, the sport, everybody. Coming in here and not being able to say certain things or promoting cleanlilness, rightfully so in my mind with the SKY thing because of the situaton, is a no win situation.

Promoting cleanliness in the sport while qualifying the shadows is a no win situation. Asking for 3x more testing $ while winning GT's makes no sense. If I was him I would just STFU but he keeps on. It makes no sense to me.

Of course I also stated LA should just pay people off and go off in the distance and admit nothing, before his buffoonery on Oprah. I don't have a good recent track record in predicting what idiots will do or why they do what they do. There is absolutely no benefit for him being in here and alot of downside, which makes me want to believe him even if I think he is an idiot for doing so. That flies in the face of the factual inconsistencies pointed out by non-starstruck posters which cannot be ignored, and casts doubt.
_________________________________________________ Quote:
Originally Posted by horsinabout 
Yes it is most perplexing isn't it?

In cycling where extensive doping programs are introduced you are either in or out....in out...in out...shake it all about. If your out, you would come on the forum - with conviction?...to shake it all about?
You think he comes on here with conviction? How can he do that, with whatever repurcussions are flying around? Posters want him to come on here and jam riders and teams who are beating his allegedly clean riders and he gets sued and kicked out of the sport, while his clean riders are beating dopers he is jamming in the Giro. WTF? It's like a who's on first routine.

Or, you believe him that everything is mostly clean and 3x more money is needed for the future, while skirting around the points that posters have brought up in here about the present? That too sounds like BS.

I have no idea whether either his riders are doping on their own or if there is something team wide, or if things are as clean as he says in the peloton. This forum has no idea whether or not they are seeing a clean performance or not. It's the clinic way, eternal pessimism, and the public thinks all cycling is are dopers anyway. Hypocrisy abounds in the clinic, and if anybody believes JV on face value then they should GTFO of the clinic and never question any riders, like the joke 2011 of Gilbert.

JV can't prove any of those things one way or the other, as has been shown in here. So, what is the point, not only in posting in here but his whole gig?

___________________________________________

Originally Posted by Benotti69 
JV loves it here 

As for the other team owners. This place is read by all who can and talked about by all the rest of the pro cycling world.
JV talks a lot about his experiences......which is admirable, and telling.

Because he is still involved in high level professional cycling, there is a kind of juxtaposition in what he writes, regarding his experiences from the past and now in the present.

He is clashing here in the forum with idealism from posters and what he really knows is going on in "the real world" of pro racing.

Quote:
That's all I have to say on that, Forest Gump
__________________
Quote:
You took ONE Guy, stuck your fingers in both of his eyes , spun him around , pointed at the door , and expected him to find his way out with Dignity?

Skippy
--------

Quote:
Originally Posted by skippy 
JV gives the clinic an enormous compliment , by visiting .

No he doesn't. To be fair to the guy, sports fans in general can be kind of a weird premise for interactions with others, and your fawning is a good example of that. That said, Somewhere in this thread, he uses "Kiddos" as a reference for forum participants. That alone says volumes. It's fine if you wish to pretend otherwise, but it is pretending.

THESE and other comments caused Jon Vaughters to reply :

Today, 05:32
JV1973 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 431

You guys are right. They all dope. *******s. And I'm a ******* too.

You won.

ok, since victory has been achieved, a round of back patting is in order.

Someday I can only pray to have the insight, intelligence, and clarity of the victors.

well done.




Wonder if this is the last time he takes note of what passes in this thread ? 

My comment to the " Clinic 2 after reading this :

"  CONGRATS W#*nk*rs !

You had the Op to see a little of the thinking of those that RUN Cycle Sport !

You took ONE Guy , stuck your fingers in both of his eyes , spun him around , pointed at the door , and expected him to find his way out with Dignity ?

WHO is going to come and treat YOU as Adults after that display of STUPIDITY ?

dirty works , says i am fawning !

All of you ignorants that know better than the Profis , hiding behind your avatars , deserve NO CREDIBILITY !

Even some of the " mods " , deserve a wake up call !

Too many times i have asked how the " Clinic " can be a " FORCE " in seeking a change , what a waste of effort that was !

Each of you scoring points off each other so as to acheive what ?

NOTHING !


Less than NOTHING !

Get over yourselves , as a group , you are not worth the time of DAY for a Profi looking for a sense of what the Tifosi is thinking !

Back to Comedy , folks ! Who has the next segment of Joke a minute ? "

An Aussie comic posted this in reply :

Quote:
Originally Posted by skippy View Post
CONGRATS W#*nk*rs !
?
Thanks Brad. Good to see you finally joined up. Good luck for the Giro, buddy!
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Were i JV , ANY Cyclingnews journo , would be leaving empty handed , when seeking comment in any future contact with Garmin Team !

JV can contact me on Skippi@ausi.com should he wish . For what it is worth i follow JV on twitter as he posts links to a variety of Cycling Sites .

As for " dirty works of Clinic notoriety " , this is not about " fawning " , but had been about encouraging others to join , in " educating the GREAT UNWASHED & CLUELESS , in common decency . So many reading the " Clinic " choose not to descend into this cesspool of inhospitality !

A couple of people with a smattering of decency added :

  "  Quote:
Originally Posted by hrotha View Post
JV, you can say whatever you want to us, call us any names you can think of, but NEVER say we don't love cycling.
Actually, he's perfectly entitled to say that. He can say what he wants. I'm just not entirely sure why he wastes his time in here. Honestly, it's become like a cult. There's no arguing with a religious fundamentalist. Just smile, and go to the pub.

The only sensible response is to enjoy it for comedy value, and spend any actual anti-doping energy somewhere actually useful.
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'The biggest zealot, the crazy zealots'', man, you have some issues. Take a chill pill.

If you do not like the Clinic you could always do yourself the pleasure by staying away.

Vaughters comes here to juggle with the monkeys who are trying to figure out how to crack the coconut, nothing more. And, sometimes, just to point us on a new release in the press coming soon. And yes, he gets confronted with the doping issue of the whole peloton, is that fair? Not entirely, but, hey, since when is life fair?

________________________________

Originally Posted by Potomac View Post
The only reason to visit the clinic is to read JV's posts.
The only reason JV comes here is for the Clinic 12.

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  "  Quote:
Originally Posted by BroDeal View Post
Right now Team Sky is making the sport look terrible. It does not matter if the team's riders are not doping. The results are such an outlier to what is usual, they smell bad. To make things worse, the sport is run by a moron. Can anyone imagine McQuaid as the CEO of a Fortune 500 company giving a quarterly earnings conference call. The market's faith in the company would fall off a cliff moments after he began speaking. The stock would crater.
Summing it up well ... Both observations are bang on.

  "    Quote:
Originally Posted by skippy View Post
CONGRATS W#*nk*rs !

Sup?

Wow. really wow. 
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You need more fiber in your diet.
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That's the point I made a few days ago, a heartbreak thread...when you have people who say "let's look at what's going on and talk about it reasonably" and others who declare "I've looked at what's going on and I'll tell you how it is, oh and BTW Sky are a bunch of cheaters and dopers, that's not even open to discussion", not to mention that dude, the biggest zealot of course who made it to JV's ignore list (and mine) who knows so little about cycling that he confuses Lepheimer with Horner, what can you expect? It's a miracle it's gone on for so long.

Frankly I hope JV moves on to better things, like the forums outside the clinic where the crazy zealots can't indulge in their little crusade.

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